Comment from larKeypeMal
Go to Layer>Matting>Remove White Matte (because the outline here is white).
View ArticleComment from Roxbourne
I agree with David, as browsers are free, there is no excuse for not updating. Anyone still browsing with really old ones will surly be experiencing plenty of sites not looking right - so either they...
View ArticleComment from Wilfred Nas
In my opinion, supporting browsers are influenced by the amount of users. One of my clients has over 9 million visitiors a month. even a browser with a percentage of .5 % still represents a large...
View ArticleComment from David
My position on this one is very straightforward: browsers are free so why should companies around the world spend millions of $ supporting old kit, when people can upgrade for free? The only people who...
View ArticleComment from Jake
@matt I'm sorry to say I know plenty of VERY wealthy people who still use IE 6, wealth does not directly correlate to computer knowledge. I agree with Heidi, if you develop good HTML/CSS it is usually...
View ArticleComment from Heidi Cool
It's amazing how the debate that began during the browser wars continues to carry on. I think we do have to draw a line in the sand somewhere. To me it comes well after Netscape 1.0, but it does come...
View ArticleComment from Matt
I'm a newbie and have to agree to ignore older browsers, chances are the user is old, poor and unable to upgrade their computer, so why would your client want to target them unless they were a computer...
View ArticleComment from mofo
The truth is (in my experience), that no business dealing with web design has the time to fine tune a particular site for 'deprecated' browsers, since we all know that time is money.
View ArticleComment from Jake
@paddy I wish is were feasible to just quit IE 6....I'd be the first to do so, but as you said you lose customers. Referencing some stuff I talk about in my response article, it's not always the users...
View ArticleComment from Paddy Foran
I'm not going to lie- I'm an amateur web developer at best, and with all the pros throwing in their two cents, I'm almost positive it is not worth my time to try and deal with this in terms of...
View ArticleComment from Peter Wilson
Sorry abotu the double post, left out the demonstration link:http://code.peterwilson.cc/screen-mobile/
View ArticleComment from Peter Wilson
@Scott Jehl, @snook Many mobile browsers use screen styles rather than handheld styles - I've put together a page to demonstrate this - almost rendering alternative media types useless for anything...
View ArticleComment from John Dowdell
Designing to particular desktop user agents doesn't seem to do too well when the number of mobile devices is increasing so rapidly. It's like asking about making layouts sized to 1024x768 pixels... you...
View ArticleComment from Jake Smith
The following link is my response/views related to this post:Drawing the Line with Browser Compatibility
View ArticleComment from Scott Jehl
Thanks Jonathan, good to hear your thoughts on this stuff. We'll have some good examples to show shortly, so I'll hold off on saying more until then. Meanshile, we posted the slides mentioned above if...
View ArticleComment from Andy Kant
It really depends on the audience of a site. Typically I officially support the latest versions of major browsers (Firefox, IE, Safari, Opera, Chrome) along with IE6/7. Supporting IE6 is still pretty...
View ArticleComment from Jonathan Snook
Well, my UA whitelist would be upwards compatible so if I had one for a site right now, I'd have 5 listed. IE6+, Gecko/2009040820+, Webkit/500+, and Opera9+. Think it'll be much different in 5 years?...
View ArticleComment from Jake
There is no way I can give up IE 6 support at this time. Too large of a % is using, and will continue to use it for years to come. IE 8 update/upgrade is great on paper, but in the end just isn't...
View ArticleComment from Scott Jehl
@Shimon. Exactly. :) And we can easily check if your browser is capable before delivering enhancements, without a laundry list of UA strings to maintain. </broken-record>
View ArticleComment from Shimon
"all Opera users put together. <...> In a way, it's like they don't even exist." Hey we do exist! But thanks to Opera that keeps up to most of standards so it pages rarely look bad in it if they...
View ArticleComment from Scott Jehl
@snook: But isn't this approach backed by the promise of web standards that we've all already fully endorsed? These capabilities tests to determine a devices handling of standards-based technologies...
View ArticleComment from Anton
Look, we all have to remember that it's a numbers game, and it's VERY specific to the site that's being built. I'm reading a lot of "I do such and such", but I'm not picking up on much "for scenario A...
View ArticleComment from Jonathan Snook
@Andy: good point and you're right. I'm more apt to throw the X-grade in with the C-grade but thanks for mentioning that. @Scott: great points all around on the UA detection. Curation is an important...
View ArticleComment from Scott Jehl
More food-for-thought against UA testing: Do your clients maintain their whitelist as browsers emerge? How do you ensure their content is viewed as intended years from now? Maybe Yahoo can afford to do...
View ArticleComment from Andy
"That does mean that browsers whose UA string refers to something else will get a simple experience, but at least they'll have a reliable experience. We *know* what's going to happen instead of...
View ArticleComment from Scott Jehl
By brittle, do you mean my test cases in particular or the practice in general? I'll take criticism on my own tests - they could certainly be improved. But jQuery 1.3 runs most of the largest sites on...
View ArticleComment from Jonathan Snook
@Scott Jehl: capabilities testing works well with JavaScript but it feels too brittle. Yes, UA testing only works for browsers that you know about but I think that some assumptions can be made. That...
View ArticleComment from Andy
I'm just saying there's no point of adding support for a browser that is generally considered dead and will never ever ever end up doing a request to my site. IMO it makes more sense to target the...
View ArticleComment from Scott Jehl
Server-side UA testing only works for browsers you know about. What's to say an "x-grade" browser is capable or not? Should we really assume it always is? jQuery recently moved to capabilities testing...
View ArticleComment from Jonathan Snook
Andy: By "valued", I meant, they could have a reasonable experience without stuff looking like its broken. And yes, it is a matter of How. Going back in history, IE had a monstrous share of the market,...
View ArticleComment from Andy
@Zach Leatherman: Indeed, that's what I was referring to when I stated that Nate Koechley addressed it last month.
View ArticleComment from Stanley
I go with the "intended" jQuery support path. I will support the LATEST RELEASED version (and 1 previous) of every browser with > 1% market share. Thus right now (April, 2009) my official support...
View ArticleComment from Zach Leatherman
If you watch Koechley's video on Professional Front End Engineering, he talks about Graded Browser Support quite a bit, and even shows an example of how Yahoo's homepage is served to a C grade browser....
View ArticleComment from Andy
@Jonathan: I'm sorry if you took it the wrong way. I wasn't trying to offend you by not sugar-coating my message, I was simply trying to cut to the chase. As for having a valued experience (and I...
View ArticleComment from Heath Nail
I think with old user agent strings, to some degree you have to wonder if they are actually human beings or not. I'm definitely not denying there is a population of people that still use old browsers....
View ArticleComment from Scott Jehl
re: Yahoo's graded browser support: that's a fine system for claiming which browsers your site supports and why, and it works in combination with capabilities testing, but YGBS in itself is just a...
View ArticleComment from Scott Jehl
@jeff: Sure that would be cool, but how would that help someone who's using a form that just failed in attempt at swapping all its HTML inputs for flashy div-based, js/css/aria-driven widgets. Turning...
View ArticleComment from Jeff L
@scott but wouldn't it be cool if it did? Would be nice if browsers all had the functionality that Firefox has: View > Page Style > No style. You'd know that no matter how tricky we got with our...
View ArticleComment from Scott Jehl
Some good points here, but let's not forget that we're not just talking about older browsers. This is about new and obscure browsers and devices as well. There are multitudes of ways people are...
View ArticleComment from Jonathan Snook
Andy: well, I didn't delete the comment so no shame here. What I was concerned about is adding to the conversation and I don't feel you did that. You didn't say, "hey, btw folks, there's this graded...
View ArticleComment from Andy
I'm sorry that you feel my comment was useless, I was merely trying to point you in the right direction so you wouldn't wander blindly in the night. As for people not talking about it, it has been up...
View ArticleComment from Dale Mugford
Fantastic article, Jonathan. For my work, I build projects assuming only a small subset of limitations when I design and code, and work to reduce the indiscrepancies closer to the end of a project,...
View ArticleComment from Jeff L
Eventually, you have to move on. The newest version of Office uses a new document format by default. This format isn't compatible with older versions of Office. Yes, you can save your documents in an...
View ArticleComment from Jonathan Snook
@Andy (15): to be honest, I almost deleted your comment for uselessness. First of all, there's no reason discussion can't continue where others have tread. If that were the case, there would be little...
View ArticleComment from Pies
BTW, support for older browsers might sound like a good thing, but in reality you're creating huge hurdles you will need to get trough each time you change _anything_ in the design. That alone should...
View ArticleComment from Chris Wallace
I agree with Dan. Per project, per audience. Working on a site that sees 6 million visitors per month, 10% of our audience is a LARGE amount of revenue online and we can't afford to miss out on that...
View ArticleComment from Pies
I think it's just a matter of cost/profit calculation. Supporting an additional browser always carries a cost, likewise, not supporting it also has a cost. Personally, I check in Chrome (my browser of...
View ArticleComment from Andy
Jonathan, you're visiting places other people have already been at. Go read up on Graded Browser Support.
View ArticleComment from Joel Goldstick
Who uses old browsers? People in dysfunctional companies and people with really old computers. If you are making websites for commerce these people don't matter because they don't buy things. If you...
View ArticleComment from David Dixon
For me, the issue with supporting old browsers boils down to a single question: Am I supporting a browsers "lack of support" for current standards or their "buggy support" for the current standards....
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